All her life she was accompanied by fame: when she was a model, when she became the star of the popular TV series Santa Barbara, and after that — the wife of the scandalous actor Sean Penn … Journalists forgot about her when she left her career for the sake of her family and refused many high-profile roles. But the best comes to those who know how to wait. Having played the role of the first lady of the United States in the series «House of Cards», she again found herself in the spotlight. Meeting with Robin Wright — an actress and director, who only after the divorce began to recognize herself.
It seems that she left her regal slowness and ballet in the frame of «House of Cards». I can almost see her dropping her stilettos as she steps out from under the spotlights… The woman in front of me ruffles her hair under the air conditioner, pulls back the collar of her white T-shirt, adjusts the belt of her jeans — like an ordinary New Yorker walking into a cool cafe with a warmed-up scorching street sun. She set me up with a date in old Brooklyn Heights, and I can see why.
The local inhabitants, the owners of «old white money», will never give a sign that they met a celebrity … Here Robin Wright is not threatened by the consequences of her new fame, which made her 50 years old: she will not have to give autographs, shy away from prying eyes … She can be like that , which she likes: friendly and reserved. Pacified. That in itself raises questions.
ຈິດຕະວິທະຍາ: I think about your life and come to the conclusion: you are only outwardly harmonious, unflappable, tolerant in all respects. But in fact you are a revolutionary, a subversive of the foundations. You are taking decisive action. Quitting a job to raise kids is a wild decision for a movie star, especially after hits like The Princess Bride and Forrest Gump. And your divorce after twenty years of marriage! It was like a series of boxing matches — now a hug, then a knockdown, then participants in the corners of the ring. And your union with a colleague 15 years younger … Now you are back in the spotlight — in connection with the struggle for equal pay for women in the film industry and a new profession — directing. How do you manage to combine softness with uncompromisingness?
Robin Wright: ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າບໍ່ເຄີຍຄິດຂອງຕົນເອງໃນປະເພດດັ່ງກ່າວ… ວ່າຂ້າພະເຈົ້າ wrestler… ແມ່ນແລ້ວ, ທ່ານແມ່ນກ່ຽວກັບບາງສິ່ງບາງຢ່າງ. ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າໄດ້ສະເຫມີຫຼາຍຫຼືຫນ້ອຍທີ່ຈະຂັດຂວາງວິທີການຂອງສິ່ງທີ່. ບໍ່… ໃນທາງກົງກັນຂ້າມ: ຊີວິດຂອງຂ້ອຍສ່ວນຫຼາຍຂ້ອຍພຽງແຕ່… ກິນຫຍ້າ! ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າປະຕິບັດຕາມເຫດການ, ພວກເຂົາເຈົ້າຕໍ່ສູ້ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າ. ຂ້ອຍຕ້ອງຕ້ານທານ. ຂ້ອຍກໍ່ບໍ່ຢາກຫຼິ້ນ Claire Underwood ໃນ House of Cards! ແລະບໍ່ພຽງແຕ່ຍ້ອນວ່າຄວາມລໍາອຽງຕໍ່ຕ້ານໂທລະພາບບອກຂ້ອຍວ່າເຈົ້າໄດ້ໃຊ້ເວລາພຽງພໍຂອງຊີວິດຂອງເຈົ້າໃນ Santa Barbara ເພື່ອກັບຄືນໄປຫາຫນ້າຈໍນ້ອຍໆທີ່ສັບສົນນັ້ນ. ບໍ່ພຽງແຕ່.
And also because she is a typical CEO with all this Machiavellianism of big business: you are inefficient, you are late, you are indecisive — you are fired. I couldn’t even fire my housekeeper. Everything in me yearns for peace and reconciliation. Or self-destruction. But indeed, the circumstances were such that I had to leave my pasture. However, mind you, not for the sake of a race with prizes and hype. And for the sake of plow.
And what does it look like when you «graze»?
R. R.: ດ້ວຍສະຖານະການທີ່ເອື້ອອໍານວຍ, ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າໄປໃນ pajamas ຂອງຂ້າພະເຈົ້າຫມົດມື້.
ແລະມັນທັງຫມົດ?
R. R.: Everyone thinks I’m serious — I’m joking, but you don’t recognize it. But there is some truth here: I love pajamas, they are the most natural clothes for me. So designer Karen Fowler and I developed our line of pajamas to sell to victims of violence in the Congo, and I became the face of the brand. It was a sincere idea.
ລູກສາວຂອງຂ້ອຍເກີດເມື່ອຂ້ອຍອາຍຸ 24 ປີ. ຕອນນີ້ຂ້ອຍຮູ້ວ່າມັນໄວເກີນໄປ, ໄວເກີນໄປ. ການພັດທະນາຂອງຂ້ອຍເບິ່ງຄືວ່າໄດ້ຢຸດເຊົາ
ການຊ່ວຍເຫຼືອບາງຄົນຜ່ານບາງສິ່ງທີ່ທ່ານຮັກແທ້ໆແມ່ນການກະທໍາທີ່ບໍລິສຸດ. ແລະຖ້າບໍ່ມີຊຸດນອນ, ຫຼັງຈາກນັ້ນ ... ດຽວນີ້ຂ້ອຍຄິດວ່າການໄປກັບກະແສແມ່ນເປັນອາຊີບທີ່ ໜ້າ ເສົ້າ. ຕອນນີ້ຂ້ອຍຄິດວ່າ: ຂ້ອຍເປັນໄວລຸ້ນທີ່ໂດດດ່ຽວຈືດໆຢູ່ໃນໂຮງຮຽນ, ເພາະວ່າຂ້ອຍບໍ່ໄດ້ພະຍາຍາມພິສູດຕົວເອງໃນທາງໃດກໍ່ຕາມ.
ເຈົ້າເສົ້າແລະໂດດດ່ຽວບໍ? ໃນບັນດາໄວລຸ້ນ, ເມື່ອໃດທີ່ຮູບລັກສະນະທີ່ມີຄຸນຄ່າ?
R. R.: I suffered from dyslexia, I had difficulty studying, I did not have fighting qualities, I was not eager to be a cheerleader. All this does not contribute to the acceptance of you in hierarchical communities, which is the school. Then I got hooked on the fashion industry — through my mother’s efforts, of course. She was one of the pioneers of selling Mary Kay cosmetics and a communication genius, because the entire strategy of this company is based on sales “from hand to hand”. My mom is a fighter!
ພໍ່ແມ່ຂອງຂ້າພະເຈົ້າໄດ້ແຍກອອກເມື່ອຂ້າພະເຈົ້າມີອາຍຸສອງປີ. ຂ້ອຍຈື່ໄດ້ວ່າພໍ່ຮ້ອງໄຫ້ຕອນທີ່ແມ່ເອົາຂ້ອຍກັບນ້ອງຊາຍຢູ່ໃນລົດ. ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າໄດ້ຮ້ອງໄຫ້, ເຫັນພວກເຮົາອອກໄປ… ຫຼັງຈາກ 13 ປີ, ໃນການສົນທະນາກັບແມ່ຂອງຂ້າພະເຈົ້າ, ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າຈື່ຈໍາຕອນນີ້, ແລະນາງແປກໃຈຫຼາຍ. ນາງບໍ່ຈື່ນ້ໍາຕາແລະໂດຍທົ່ວໄປຈື່ທຸກສິ່ງທຸກຢ່າງທີ່ແຕກຕ່າງກັນ: ເປັນການປົດປ່ອຍທີ່ຕັດສິນໃຈ, ການອອກຈາກອະດີດ. ນາງຈື່ໄດ້ວ່າພວກເຮົາເວົ້າວ່າ goodbye ແລະຈາກໄປ. ບໍ່ຮູ້. ບາງທີຄວາມຮູ້ສຶກທີ່ເປັນເດັກນ້ອຍນີ້ໄດ້ອ້າງເຖິງນ້ຳຕາຂອງພໍ່, ທີ່ຈິງແລ້ວ ນ້ຳຕາຂອງຂ້າພະເຈົ້າແມ່ນ…
I understand a person better when I find his «prototype» in the animal world. And for each role I find a «key» in the form of an animal
ແລະແມ່ຂອງຂ້ອຍມີຄວາມຫ້າວຫັນແລະຕັດສິນໃຈແລະບໍ່ແລກປ່ຽນກັບການຂັດຂວາງອາລົມ. ນາງແມ່ນໃຈດີແລະເປີດໃຫ້ປະລາດໃຈ, ສະເຫມີ. ແຕ່ລາວບໍ່ຍອມໃຫ້ຕົວເອງຊ້າລົງ. ແຕ່ເຖິງວ່າຫົກປີຕໍ່ມາ ພໍ່ແມ່ຂອງຂ້າພະເຈົ້າໄດ້ເຕົ້າໂຮມກັນ, ແລະ ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າໄດ້ລົມກັບພໍ່ສະເໝີ, ແຕ່ສິ່ງນີ້ຍັງຄົງຢູ່ໃນຕົວຂ້າພະເຈົ້າວ່າ: ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າບໍ່ສາມາດເຮັດຫຍັງໄດ້, ພໍ່ຂອງຂ້າພະເຈົ້າໄດ້ຢືນຢູ່ຂ້າງຖະໜົນ, ແລະ ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າໄດ້ອອກໄປໃນລົດຂອງແມ່ຂອງຂ້າພະເຈົ້າ... ບາງທີນັ້ນແມ່ນຍ້ອນວ່າ. ຫຼາຍປີທີ່ຂ້ອຍໄດ້ຮຽນຮູ້ສຽງ conciliatory ນີ້ໃນຊີວິດ? ບໍ່ຮູ້.
ແຕ່ເຈົ້າໄດ້ກາຍເປັນຕົວແບບ, ແລະນີ້ແມ່ນພາກສະຫນາມທີ່ມີການແຂ່ງຂັນສູງ ...
R. R.: It’s true. But first, I found myself in some kind of artificial enclosure: at the age of 14, I received a contract in Japan. Mom took me there. My older brother Richard was supposed to take care of me — he started his career as a photographer there. But he was not up to me, I was left to myself. And I learned so much about life — completely different from ours! Spent hours at the zoo. Since then I have had this habit — I understand a person better (or it seems to me that I understand) when I find his «prototype» in the animal world. And for each role, I find a “key” in the form of an animal.
ບົດບາດທີ່ຂ້ອຍມັກທີ່ສຸດຂອງເຈົ້າແມ່ນຢູ່ໃນ Nick Cassavetes 'ນາງງາມຫຼາຍ. Maureen ເປັນສັດປະເພດໃດ?
R. R.: Meerkat. She only looks like a cat, with her smoothness and softness — back against your leg. But she is interested in a warm mink and warm sun. It’s not her fault, she just can’t live without warmth. But she keeps pulling her head to see what’s on the horizon. True, its horizon is quite close.
ແລະ Claire Underwood?
R. R.: I thought for a long time… Bald eagle. Royal and statuary. He hovers over small creatures. They are his prey. But he has wings, powerful wings. He is above all — both small creatures and larger predators.
ເຈົ້າໄປກັບກະແສແນວໃດ?
R. R.: Then there was a contract in Paris. A whole year in Europe for someone who grew up in glossy but provincial San Diego is a revolution. The world opened up before me. I have many questions for myself. I began to evaluate myself as a person, and not as a function — am I good in the pictures, am I disciplined enough for the “big podium” and is my chest really as small as one famous photographer shouted to the make-up artist at the shooting: “Yes, do something if they slipped me a flat-chested model!”
I began to analyze myself and was dissatisfied with myself. But I had no idea that this dissatisfaction leads to much more selfishness than self-satisfaction. Then «Santa Barbara» — life on schedule, in constant tension. And then — love, family, children. My first marriage to a Santa Barbara colleague was a comrade-in-arms marriage: a big party, and it ended quickly.
ແຕ່ກັບ Sean, ທຸກສິ່ງທຸກຢ່າງໃນເບື້ອງຕົ້ນແມ່ນຮ້າຍແຮງ. ແລະຂ້າພະເຈົ້າຄິດວ່າມັນແມ່ນຕະຫຼອດໄປ. ແມ່ນແລ້ວ, ມັນໄດ້ເກີດຂຶ້ນ: 20 ປີຂອງຄວາມສໍາພັນແມ່ນຄໍາສັບຄ້າຍຄື "ສະເຫມີ" ສໍາລັບຂ້ອຍ. Dylan ເກີດເມື່ອຂ້ອຍອາຍຸ 24 ປີ. ຕອນນີ້ຂ້ອຍຮູ້ວ່າມັນໄວ, ໄວຫຼາຍ, ບໍ່ຈໍາເປັນ. ການພັດທະນາຂອງຂ້ອຍເບິ່ງຄືວ່າໄດ້ຢຸດເຊົາ.
ແຕ່ຄວາມສໍາພັນໃຫມ່, ຄວາມເປັນແມ່, ຢຸດການພັດທະນາໄດ້ແນວໃດ? ມັນໄດ້ຖືກຍອມຮັບໂດຍທົ່ວໄປວ່າເຫຼົ່ານີ້ແມ່ນ catalysts ສໍາລັບການຂະຫຍາຍຕົວຂຶ້ນ!
R. R.: ແຕ່ຂ້ອຍບໍ່ຮູ້ຈັກຕົວເອງ! ແລະສໍາລັບທົດສະວັດແລະເຄິ່ງຫນຶ່ງຕໍ່ໄປ, ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າໄດ້ລ້ຽງລູກ, ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າບໍ່ໄດ້ສົມບູນດ້ວຍຕົນເອງ, ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າເປັນແມ່. ທີ່ສຸດຂອງຊີວິດຜູ້ໃຫຍ່ຂອງຂ້ອຍ! ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າພຽງແຕ່ບໍ່ດົນມານີ້ໄດ້ເລີ່ມຄົ້ນພົບວ່າຂ້ອຍແມ່ນໃຜ.
ແຕ່ສໍາລັບ sake ຂອງເດັກນ້ອຍ, ທ່ານໄດ້ມີການປ່ຽນແປງຊີວິດຢ່າງຫຼວງຫຼາຍ. ຄວາມຕັດສິນໃຈບໍ່ແມ່ນສັນຍານຂອງຜູ້ທີ່ເປັນຜູ້ໃຫຍ່ບໍ?
R. R.: That’s when circumstances began to seriously fight me. Well imagine: I refuse roles during the school year, but agree to act in film during the holidays. And there: «Well, go to the zoo again, and in the evening we will go together to eat ice cream.» That is: dear children, once again please leave my life, and then you can return. Do you understand? The profession separated me from the children. I had to put up a barrier.
ເດັກນ້ອຍທີ່ເຕີບໂຕຂຶ້ນພາຍໃຕ້ການຊີ້ນໍາຢ່າງຕໍ່ເນື່ອງໃນປັດຈຸບັນພໍໃຈກັບແມ່ຂອງເຂົາເຈົ້າບໍ?
R. R.: I have made a personal discovery as a mother that the only way to get children to listen to you is to give them as much independence as possible. And I made this discovery just in time — just before the entry of Dylan and Hopper (they are a year and a half apart) into delicate adolescence. Dylan is a very independent person, at the age of 16 she began to make mature professional decisions and became a model not out of inertia, but meaningfully — to see the world not through the eyes of a daughter of rich parents, but through the eyes of an active participant.
ການແຕ່ງງານຄັ້ງທໍາອິດຂອງຂ້າພະເຈົ້າກັບເພື່ອນຮ່ວມງານຂອງ Santa Barbara ແມ່ນການແຕ່ງງານຂອງ comrade-in-arms: ເປັນງານລ້ຽງແຂງ, ແລະມັນສິ້ນສຸດລົງຢ່າງໄວວາ.
ແຕ່ Hopper ໄດ້ກາຍເປັນຜູ້ຊາຍທີ່ມີຄວາມສ່ຽງຫຼາຍ. ເມື່ອອາຍຸໄດ້ 14 ປີ, ລາວໄດ້ພະຍາຍາມເຮັດຫລອກລວງເທິງສະເກັດບອດຢ່າງຍາກຈົນເກືອບຕາຍ. ເລືອດອອກ intracranial ແລະທັງຫມົດ. Sean ປະເມີນຄ່າຕະຫຼອດຊີວິດຂອງລາວຫຼາຍເກີນໄປໃນຂະນະທີ່ການດໍາເນີນການດໍາເນີນຕໍ່ໄປ. ຂ້ອຍເກືອບຕາຍ. ບໍ່ມີຫຍັງ, ພວກເຮົາຢູ່ລອດ… ຜົນຂ້າງຄຽງຂອງການເປັນເອກະລາດຂອງເດັກນ້ອຍ. ແຕ່ມັນຄຸ້ມຄ່າ.
What about divorce? Was it a sign of growing up — after 20 years of marriage?
R. R.: Not at all, I wouldn’t interpret it that way. On the contrary, I tried my best to maintain the status quo. We reconciled, united, then parted again. And so for three years. I was afraid to change my life, because … It was clear — in a new life, after Sean, a new me would have to appear.
ແລະນາງໄດ້ສະແດງໃຫ້ເຫັນເຖິງ?
R. R.: She appeared when I realized myself. One day I woke up and realized that there was nothing to worry about. I did something in my life, experienced something, and kept worrying whether I was good, what I was like as an actress, as a mother, as a wife. And it was stupid to worry — you just had to live. I realized that there was nothing to worry about, not because the children became adults, and my marriage ended — after all, marriage is a beautiful fortress, but how long can one live behind the fortifications! No, I realized that there is no need to worry, because the experience of what has already been experienced says: live, you can just live.
ແລະຫຼັງຈາກນັ້ນຜູ້ຊາຍໃຫມ່ໄດ້ປາກົດ. ເຈົ້າບໍ່ອາຍກັບຄວາມແຕກຕ່າງຂອງອາຍຸ 15 ປີບໍ?
R. R.: ແນ່ນອນ, ມັນບໍ່ໄດ້ລົບກວນຂ້ອຍ. ມັນສຳຄັນແນວໃດເມື່ອເຈົ້າໃຊ້ຊີວິດໃຫ້ເຕັມທີ່ທີ່ສຸດ, ອ່ານໃຫ້ຫຼາຍເທົ່າທີ່ເຈົ້າບໍ່ເຄີຍອ່ານມາກ່ອນ, ແລະຮູ້ສຶກຫຼາຍ ແລະຫົວຫຼາຍ! Hell, Ben Foster ເປັນຜູ້ຊາຍທໍາອິດທີ່ຖາມຂ້ອຍອອກ!
ຄື?
R. R.: I mean, no one has ever asked me out on a date before. I’ve been married all my life! And before that, no one had asked me out on a date. Moreover, the date was wonderful — it was poetry reading. In every way a new experience.
ແລະຍັງເຈົ້າໄດ້ແຍກອອກ ...
R. R.: ຂ້ອຍເຮັດວຽກສໍາລັບໂຄງການທີ່ເຮັດວຽກເພື່ອປົກປ້ອງແມ່ຍິງຈາກຄວາມຮຸນແຮງແລະຂ້ອຍໃຊ້ເວລາຫຼາຍໃນອາຟຣິກາ. ຢູ່ທີ່ນັ້ນຂ້ອຍໄດ້ຮຽນຮູ້ວິທີການເບິ່ງຂອງອາຟຣິກາ: ທຸກໆມື້ຕໍ່ໄປແມ່ນສິ່ງໃຫມ່. ແລະມັນໄດ້ເລີ່ມຕົ້ນແລ້ວ: ໃນຖານະຜູ້ອໍານວຍການ, ຂ້າພະເຈົ້າໄດ້ເຮັດຫຼາຍຕອນໃນ House of Cards ແລະຂ້າພະເຈົ້າວາງແຜນທີ່ຈະເປັນຜູ້ອໍານວຍການຢ່າງສົມບູນ. ເບິ່ງ, ພວກເຮົາບໍ່ຮູ້ວ່າຈະເກີດຫຍັງຂຶ້ນໃນຫ້ານາທີຕໍ່ໄປ, ສະນັ້ນເປັນຫຍັງຈຶ່ງທົນທຸກກັບສິ່ງທີ່ເກີດຂຶ້ນແລ້ວ? ມື້ອື່ນຈະເປັນມື້ໃຫມ່.